Future Changes Feedback

[Nym]

We've mentioned before we're revamping huge parts of the shop, and with the addition of a new member, we are focusing highly on CP, SC, and breedings so that you guys can operate properly while I eventually drown in lore and customer stuff.

These are a highly messy but reformated version of the changes we're looking to do. Before we write the new guides/add the new totals/etc etc MATH STUFF we wanted to check what y'all thought and then we'll implement them properly. ​

 

[Nym]

General

• Mutations are being called blessings, because lore stuff. I WILL REVEAL THAT TO YOU SOON BUT NO SPOILERS ILU GUYS, but mutations were kinda mean and now it's called blessings. Customers don't know this yet, wait until I announce it, which will be this month NEW TERM NAME NEEDED. PLEASE SUGGEST.
• Corrupted Breedings are being renamed Miracle Breedings, for another lore reason and also it was mean. I'll be announcing this to customers this month. It won't be locked to October. NEW TERM NAME NEEDED. PLEASE SUGGEST.
• CP (Custom Points) are being renamed to CC (Creation Credits), while SC (Staff Credits) are being renamed to PC (Personal Credits)

CP (CC)

• We're changing the name CP to CC (so instead of custom points it's creation credits). This is not debatable, I need this to change pls
• Standard ponies are free. They do not cost CC, but they do earn CC and SC. A standard pony is any base breed (Earth, Dragon, Dullahan, etc).
• Hybrid ponies are also free. They also do not cost CC, but they too earn CC and SC.
• Edits are free, they do not cost CC. This means unedited, edited, major edited can be done without restriction. Edits are accessories, clothes, piercings, hair, etc. They DO earn CC (higher edits earn more CC)
• Mutations cost CC. They are separated by tier and tallied individually. For instance (the values are not set in stone this is just an example):
  • Tiny Mutation: Something the size of a pony's eye, no bigger than a ear. 1cc
  • Small Mutation: Something no bigger than a pony's head. 3cc
  • Medium Mutation: Something no bigger than the pony's torso. 5cc
  • Large Mutation: Something as large or bigger than the pony's whole body (head to toes to tail). 7cc
• You label each mutation with size, pay per mutation, so a unicorn with 4 eyes and a custom tail would end up being:
  • extra eyes, tiny 1cc
  • custom horn, small, 3cc
  • a total of = 4cc
• Splicing should be an entire body part (no ghoulie base ear with kitsune tip) if you're making a hybrid. That would automatically turn into a mutation, it is not a hybrid trait. Body parts are: head, ear, neck, torso, front legs, back legs, front hoof/paws, back hoof/paws, tail, wings
• Awakened's will be available via CC system, but the exact number is still being worked on and won't be finalized until staff reviews these notes.
• Companions do not cost CC for edits.
• Companions DO cost a base 2cc to add mutations though, but there's no limit to how many. Just don't hybrid companions.
• Companions do not reward CC. They do reward PC.

Breedings:

• You can now breed 4 ponies together! Yay! Even numbers!
• Please keep in mind exact numbers are not being finalized until after this process. We're (by we I mean Polli and Shark) are going to be hashing those out after.
• Keep in mind when I indicate a breeding I'll just be discussing it as if it's a 2-way breeding, please understand there will be numbers for other combinations.
• Standard x standard breeding have a chance of throwing a hybrid pony.
• Standard x standard breedings can result in the children having different optional/breed edits than their parents.
• Hybrid x hybrid breeding have a chance of throwing a purebred pony.
• Hybrid x hybrid breedings can have kids with edits that aren't present on the parents.
  • ie, pixie/ghoulie without wings x earth breeding that has an earth/pixie child could have wings on the pixie/earth child.
• Blessed x blessed (remember! mutations are now blessed) = all babies somehow are blessed.
• Blessed x non-blessed = 50% flat rate that a kid could have blessings
• Blessings can be in different regions than the parents. (A parent with goo feet mixing with someone with a leaf tail could make a child with leaf ears, or goo tail)
• I know this was a rule earlier but reminding, mutations can mix together in a way that makes sense.
• Kids can have lesser edit levels than parents (for super crazy complex parents), but should all have relatively similar edit levels to the other children. This is to stop edit hungry people from making edit demons. It's happened -- save yourself. It's also to prevent fairness issues when selecting children, and just generally make breedings more friendly for everyone.
  • ie, don't have one kid that's SUPER CRAZY MEGA EDITED and 2 that have like 1 accessory, or one kid who's a custom hair monster and another with stock hair and no edits.
• Alicorn x alicorn = high chance of standard pony children or a lower chance of awakened children, with alicorn children being the lowest of the low chances. We have RLC, AP, and the PC system to ensure alicorn kids, so it doesn't lock anyone out. This is to stop people forcing alicorn's, which are basically lesser gods, and losing the ONE rare breed we have.

We are still working on SC (now PC), and that'll be a later discussion. Keep that in mind!​

 

[bitsie spider]

thoughts on changes... they may or may not be filtered depending on how i'm feeling. i do not mean anything in a mean or snotty way. just straight forward thoughts

• Not a fan of the the mutation/corrupted breeding name change as i personally have religious trauma, and the idea of "miracle" anything feels gross to me
  • it was an instant recoil, i feel like i am less likely to enjoy them under that naming, and i'm just not a fan... it's such a big turn off
  • i didn't personally see "mutation" as a bad word and felt it made the ponies with them just totally in their own class of awesome
  • i don't feel calling them "miracle" anything will really improveany in-character views
    • all i can picture is Joseph: King of Dreams vibes and it's bleck-y XD
  • are we going to have different baskets for these since the current ones are creepy and geared toward the original "corrupted"/"mutant" feel?
• i don't quite understand why we are suddenly going to be allowed to hybridize ponies without cost when they've been super rare and hard to obtain, but ponies with mutations that have been around and available still cost something?
  • i mean... i get that we don't want ALL THE PONIES to be mutants, and it's a checks and balance system, but i don't get it... y'know?
  • i do, however, think it's cool that Awakened ponies will be available through customs and see them as a great way to use CC... they don't get enough love
• Don't really care/know how i feel about the number of ponies being able to breed together now
  • feels like there's potential for burn out on breedings more than there already can be with the three pony breedings
    • that may just be me and my potential for mental burn out issues, though?
  • would we be allowed to have personal rules that say we won't take four pony breedings? as i feel that i would struggle with taking those on and would most likely not feel like i could handle doing four base babies
  • i know this would be great for some of the bigger poly pony groups, but i just am not sure i can personally handle a bigger breeding on the norm
• i feel like "Standard x standard breedings can result in the children having different optional/breed edits than their parents"needs to be expanded upon in a big way
  • there's been a lot of "you can go do this!"/"be free and do ALL THE THINGS!", then someone does a "THIS", and then new rules and guidelines get brought about for them
  • i can see a lot of potential for someone going with "THIS", then having to double back if you don't expand upon what it encompasses
• As much as i hate the terminology for them now, i like the "blessed" breedings overhaul
• i'm cool with the rest of the stuff... makes sense

 

[sharkberrypizza]

I won't address the big term change (though I will say I understand, for my own part) but

Point blank, mutations, under whatever term they will be finalised as, are meant to be rarer than hybrids. You do get it, it's a better checks and balance system!

No. You are never meant to take on more than what you are comfortable with unless you want to. More options doesn't mean more stress and it shouldn't be! I would sincerely hate if you felt forced to do things you didn't want to, and I know I'm not alone. Artist threads with their own rules are always fine unless they go against the will of the shop overall. Like I know I have never done a breeding past my initial hiring one, and I actually just don't even have a thread for them - don't know if I ever will!

A lot of the THIS-ing comes from not having hammered out these changes yet, which is full transparency partly my and polli's fault for having many projects we're trying very hard to wrangle into less chaos. We are doing that now. I will say a lot of that section feels more like a complaint on the way things have been going rather than the changes that are (finally, I feel you) being done to mitigate the exact thing you're (rightfully) complaining about.

Unfortunately we're also just two-to-four average human beings on any given day, and we don't and can't think about every single thing y'all come up with either. So no matter what we get out here in terms of giving y'all a more solid system, there will be times of THIS-ing. This is not an excuse for things being the way they have been, just a reminder we are all creative and we can't possibly think of every situation. Which ... honestly I like in a way, it just means we're all making different things!

I don't want you to put in effort only to have to change stuff you were happy with. I don't want my time to be wasted either! So I will say if you are unsure, ask first! I can't promise an immediate answer, especially if it needs to be discussed and added to stuff, but it really should be timely and save potential work problems

... please let me know if any of that was confusing that was a lot of words @_@

 

[astralprogenitor]

feels like there's potential for burn out on breedings more than there already can be with the three pony breedings

I know shark said you're not gonna have to do anything you don't want to, and I'm gonna reiterate that point. You don't even have to take three pony breedings right now. Hell, you could limit yourself to only rogue breedings if you want to. I will say though that it kind of seems like everyone has breeding burn out anyway, which is partially why we're easing up some of the rules to allow for more creativity, because breedings *really* aren't getting done outside an occasional staff breeding. :<

The increase in pony breeding number was actually for me though, I wanted to say! I find breedings much more frustrating with restrictions and samey ponies which a lot of single/duo breedings are, but poly groups have a high tendency to have a lot more variety. It mirrors the kind of stuff I really loved doing wishings in ACBC, so it's very much just an option to allow people more choice to do things in a way they enjoy.

i don't quite understand why we are suddenly going to be allowed to hybridize ponies without cost when they've been super rare and hard to obtain, but ponies with mutations that have been around and available still cost something?

Because mutations are meant to be rarer; hybrids were meant to be very rare, but upon discussion of it the reasoning was flimsy and (just adding some elaboration to shark's point) magic wise it makes more sense for hybrids to not be put on a pedestal because they ... do exist. They aren't a result of magic twisting like mutations are, and it really is completely dumb we had them totally locked off, both mechanically and lorewise. XD We are fixing a broken system, not just expanding it - that's what a lot of the changes in the coming days are going to be.

I don't know how much nym wants said about it, but she DID mention her not being a baby shopowner anymore, so tl;dr a lot of stuff was done and set up out of either inexperience or fear of repeating scenarios that happened elsewhere and it honestly doesn't match the vibe of the world she's made. We're fixing that now.

• i didn't personally see "mutation" as a bad word and felt it made the ponies with them just totally in their own class of awesome
• i don't feel calling them "miracle" anything will really improveany in-character views
  • all i can picture is Joseph: King of Dreams vibes and it's bleck-y XD
• are we going to have different baskets for these since the current ones are creepy and geared toward the original "corrupted"/"mutant" feel?

You personally might not see it as a bad word (and I personally don't either), but lorewise it has made it VERY negative ICly and a LOT of people treat mutated ponies like they're some monstrous, horrific thing and that absolutely does not fit the perception that we want set for the uh ... let's say NPC populace of EC. While as a heathen and a queer person I totally understand where you might be coming from for "miracle"/"blessing", remember that Christianity absolutely doesn't exist in this world. They literally are blessed/touched by magic in a way that other ponies aren't. It's a gift from the universe that they're special/different - there's no connotation that they're holy or such, it's purely that they have been gifted extra magic in a world where magic is extremely important and part of every day life.

I will say personally I'm not against changing miracle/blessing to something else but corruption is inherently also a 'negative' word and we felt it makes no sense to use a negative word when the thing it's creating isn't viewed as negative by the populace. It's totally fine if the baskets are still spooky, as that's just how they come out - spooky isn't in and of itself negative and isn't even a negative connotation like corrupted is, lmao. We just. literally couldn't think of a good word to fit and that was like the LAST thing we did of the night and we were both tired and ready to quit for the day l o l

Remember it's not just meta perception we're working with here, we're trying to make lore terms fit lore perception, and mutants are on a whole typically negative in most media (even in X-Men mutant is often used as a derogatory or negative term), even though sure agreed mutation isn't technically a negative thing. That's how the fuck evolution happens. XD But on that note it's not even *accurate* since they're not genetically *mutated* - they're changed by magic. So eh.

Edit: Just reiterating idc if we change blessing/miracle to something else but *most* users have taken corruption/mutation in a negative light so. Needs changing. XD

Edit 2: I realized what I said without nym's explanation is probably super confusing so uh she has lore shit to say on the matter of naming that will prob help explain that more LOL

 

[Nym]

Breeding Parent Numbers: ​

So real quick hitting the breeding limit -- this is NOT enforced for all artists. You can go up to 4, but you never have to DO 4. You, as an artist, have complete control over the breeding parent number you take. Shark and Polli are correct; if you wanted to do just rogue you even could!

Can I ask why you think 4 parents would lead to burnout? I really would like to see it from all angles.

Miracle/Blessings:​

Okay, this might be long and rambly; they're changing because of a complete lore change in how it is approached and how it quite literally doesn't fit lore and hasn't for years. At least, that is not my intention for the shop, now that I'm not a child running off the barebones of scraps I wrote in a journal when I was 18.

The original writing mentions that mutations have always been viewed as unsightly, monstrous, and frightening. Mutants were, in this world, discriminated against. Despite Everchange being a fantasy world where I made a huge point that gender, sexuality, and appearance would never result in discrimination because I was/am sick of Earth and how it treats us and our players, I made a way for an entire subsection of ponies to be targeted, isolated, and frankly created racism.

It's not something I want in this world -- I understand there's hardship like this in ours, but it's not Everchange. I would like the world to be better in that regard, and while individual plotlines can figure out, if they really want to, how to wiggle those plotlines in, I rather it NOT be a general worldview.

So this led to a few ponders; while the original lore claims one thing and that because of how "rare" mutations were they had that negative view placed on them out of ponies not truly understanding what they were (ponies who received a little MORE of Everchange's natural magic when being formed), but in reality, they aren't.... THAT rare. Not as rare as I first intended in my early twenties. Tea and I make a lot, October makes a lot, SC makes a lot -- mutations are just not that rarity I foresaw they would be. I still want them to not run rampantly and without a check in place, as they are just literally rarer in the world than a hybrid or standard pony as magic just DOESN'T readily want to make mutants, but they aren't the very rare occurrence that most ponies haven't even SEEN ONCE in their lifetimes as I had originally planned.

Magic is something celebrated in Everchange -- it's how all life is made, it's what entirely runs the planet, it's everything to them. Why would ponies be seen as pariahs for being touched by it? With me revamping the shop it felt entirely against my message of the world and just made zero sense.

With the great rehaul, we want to fix a lot of lore I personally have been avoiding the META storyline and honestly feeling uncomfortable with it for years. The world is going to shift, as it once did with the Resolution Sphere, to incorporate any new breeding rules, systems, etc, and it felt like a perfect time. to adjust the term mutations/corrupted. Mutations is just a word that has always been used negatively in other worlds and places, and it continues to force the negative view on those ponies from players naturally. It is NOT the vibe I want for those types of ponies.

I am entirely willing to find a new name for them, yes! I just do need some thoughts thrown my way. I do NOT care for religion at all, and do NOT want this shop to ever inflict a feeling of... well, the feeling bitsie immediately got. That is so so very not my goal and I hate it aaaaa, so I would love new suggestions. For corrupted breedings, it's again back to it's just a harsher word that wouldn't fit once we remove the lore hatred for mutants and the new terminology. Corrupted breedings are a result of phenomena in the world that'll occur sporadically, I'd like something to fit that more. I totally understand where that instant "oh no-" response is coming from, and I agree-- we can do it better. It goes against Everchange as a whole so much for that feeling to be inflicted, so I am 10000000% open and eager to find better terms than blessed/miracle.

Does anyone have thoughts on what we could use instead? With the shop change the lore will be adjusting to view mutants as just any other pony (and not as a monster), but perhaps just a little envy from others. It'll flip from an "ew, gross" thing to a "that's cool! wow!" thing.

 

[Tigeria]

I'm actually concerned about slapping a very religious attached label on mutations. 1 it brings in a weird connotation that a god decided "oh you need something" versus just randomly happening. Some of the ponies that are variations from the norm would not have been blessed. Speaking specifically for the living zombie pony I did. That is a curse not a blessing.

I understand that when a term has to change it has to change. I haven't see the lore for why, but I am a mighty concern as to why we are slapping a new label, but not changing really anything about it?

Also for rarity of mutants/variants that has to come from the entire shop not just non rlc paid colorists (sorry of I step on some toes here) realistically we can't have them be rare if every week a new set of mutants/variants are offered up with rlc means. Its why hybrids were still everywhere even though we couldn't make them through normal means and the breedings gen set them as near impossible for non hybrid pairs.

Breedings have historically put it as variant x variant as having auto all variant kids. Which I see is changing for the better. Its hard to pick breedings that don't have a variant pair because of how common they are and because we can't exactly pick old morph ponies since we have no shop animal morphs. I don't know when or if animal morphs are coming back, but that limits the pool on non variant couples. The more people buy them the more they pair them and the less non variant ponies we see in breedings. It's been a thing since the beginning.

You can see how variants could be the go to for animal morph x animal morph breedings in the minds of customers. There is a problem with that.

We can't give them non animal morphed kids cause that is not how things have worked and how breedings are worded, but we can't also give them variants because that is not how things have worked and how breedings are worded.

In effect having old ponies with morphs we don't have access to has driven the shop customers as a group to seek mutations/variants. It's also due to ignorance of how the breeds work with one another. We kinda threw the new breeds at them with only very few samples on what could be done while not being a variant or what a hybridization is between multiple breeds.

We are in a growth spurt and the pains are showing.

 

[Nym]

We are in a growth spurt, and it does come with pains, which is why we need to change with it and why I'm setting out to fix what is broken.

For mutant rarity and an aside note; I am aware RLC produces a lot of mutants. RLC is currently the most active aspect, with 15 kids being released a week (sometimes less, sometimes a little more) consistently. It's going to teeter numbers, and it's something I struggle to balance when it comes to our lives, honestly. Those sales determine if I can pay bills or eat, quite literally, but that can muddy numbers and make us lean more in one direction than wanted. I can't, and won't, say that there won't be mutations showing up in RLC still, but I can indicate that we want to push more hybrids / edited ponies that aren't just mutations. Maybe not during... spooky month, because spooky month, but it's a fact we also have seen and are aware of and want to work on adjusting.

This does NOT mean I'm not eying the feedback about mutation cost, etc. I am waiting for my moderators to wake up before making blanket statements and it IS going to be discussed ASAP. I just don't want it to be portrayed that I'm not aware of the rarity, and NOT mention what my thoughts/future goals are with it.

Additionally, no, toes are not stepped on. It's feedback, which I asked for, and I'd like to discuss it!

Lastly, animal morph is planned to come back, but I agree not allowing animal morph breedings for as long as we have is causing a large issue with players and availability. That is a concern I have.

 

[Nym]

Before Shark and Polli went to bed they also offered these as alternative ideas for mutants/corrupted;

Shark:
"altered" "changed" or "touched"

Polli:
transmogrified, touched, mystic, melded, unusual, gifted
altered, transmuted, metamorphosed, anomalous (mostly for corrupted breedings)

 

[Luxona]

I don't really have a whole lot of feedback, but I do wanna also say that I immediately felt physically sick at the words "blessed" and "miracle"... I've honestly never really seen any negativity regarding mutants in shop outside of what polli or shark have said, but maybe I'm missing it? Really threw me off with the comment that "most" customers treat it negatively, having just come from a years-long run as only a customer it's never been something I've encountered? Even the 'monster' herd kinda threw me off, because I've not really seen anypony being discriminated against or regarded in a bad way for being mute and it really shocked me to hear that they are? But maybe I've had blinders on, I absolutely can't speak for the entire customer base, just from what I've seen as a part of it for so long....

It does sadden me that we're doing away with that word, always made me think of Kipo and the Wonderbeasts from Netflix, but I understand the need for change if there really is a discrimination that I've completely missed seeing. (Especially cuz I just called them mutes for short and it seems cute to me XD)

Brain doesn't wanna brain atm, but I'll do some thinking and try to help find a word we all enjoy!

 

[Nym]

By most I mean there is a general acceptance that mutations often come with other ponies viewing them negatively. The original writing even mentions them being viewed that way, which further pushes the "they are viewed as unfortunate/frightening" depending on extremes. It's not the goal I want for them, and I feel the name further aides in that view. A world that views magic so dearly and knows mutated ponies are just those with magic that formed differently/had more magic formed within their body when being created wouldn't really call them mutants, but would likely have a different word in place.

I do know we have some ponies with severely disabling and/or horrific mutations, and they are unfortunate and would be viewed as such, like any disability. For example, Tig's "undead" pony would be something a lot of ponies would KNOW hurts that pony and not feel is a good thing, but for the general populace of "unique wings", "unique ears", "extra big flower", "multiple eyes", "mouths in strange places" it is not something they'd really think of in that light or have a fear response to.

 

[Tigeria]

Maybe we could have Mystic for the new term for them?
As supplied by polli amd sharki per discord

 

[Luxona]

Perhaps that's why I've never seen this negative view, because I don't plot a whole lot and personally none of my ponies see mutes as bad? ... We're gonna ignore Siren Heads existence for that one... He's definitely a mute you wanna run from... XD;

Honestly, what I've seen most is exactly the opposite. Mutes have become so common and sought after, ponies without are regarded as 'plain janes' and it's harder finding plots for them. There's nothing special about them, nothing unique, so they get passed over in favor of the mutes both IC and OOC...

 

[Nym]

I'm strictly talkin' about lore, and you're right either way -- it isn't bad, so why have a name that is generally viewed as bad in most media/at first gives an impression it is? Customers love mutants (for lack of a proper term atm), but in lore they're still often viewed as monsters, of some sort. It conflicts with each other and generally the theme of Everchange, which is, ever since intense growing pains (ESPECIALLY WITH GHOULIES AND CHANGELING), so accepting and welcoming of others and working on undoing wrongs the world has done to others.

 

[RozeyBear]

Okay with the insight on why there has to be a terminology change, I'm not so bristly about the subject. Because yeah, miracle/blessing is, inherently, good but I don't wanna go down that religious-context-road just as much as the next person. Before the extra explanation, I was extremely confused as to why all of a sudden "it's a bad thing" but I get it now so that's all there is to say on that.

Not gonna lie, it's gonna take a while to full grasp most of what's changing but with guides and stuff I'm sure we'll be okay.

Breeding party number increase is interesting! Even with triads there's a lot of similarities in some cases so this could be super fun. Also thank you for the adjusted rulings for edits/colour placement and mixing. I've always mourned the fact we couldn't do that but now I don't have to!

I'm more accepting of change now that I know the reasoning behind the call for it. So right now I'm just curious and excited, really. Let's go, I guess.

 

[astralprogenitor]

I will say I've seen several backstories referencing discrimination and such; I don't RP, so the discussion/view of it in lore as bad + that is where 'most' comes from, not necessarily every user. But it's definitely there. XD The monster herd also doesn't particularly fit with the lore shift but did VERY much fit with old lore! It will likely be changed/updated when this shit's all made official.
​

​

Perhaps that's why I've never seen this negative view, because I don't plot a whole lot and personally none of my ponies see mutes as bad? ... We're gonna ignore Siren Heads existence for that one... He's definitely a mute you wanna run from... XD;

Honestly, what I've seen most is exactly the opposite. Mutes have become so common and sought after, ponies without are regarded as 'plain janes' and it's harder finding plots for them. There's nothing special about them, nothing unique, so they get passed over in favor of the mutes both IC and OOC...

 

[One Little Jay]

I have been gone for long time but here is what I think. I don’t personally understand lore wise the change from mutants maybe once we have the solid lore I would understand. I’d put forth Wonders, or Curiosities.

CC/CP has always seemed strange to me. I feel not doing mutations outside of a certain month makes sense but the more points we have to track the more confusing it can be. I am glad to see only mutations will cost points but still it adds another thing I have to log after everything we make. Not a huge deal because we are used to logging cp and Sc.But it is something that slowed down how much I was taking and hopefully this change to it will make it easier to make things.

breedings:
I will personally never take a 4 pony breeding but that doesn’t mean others shouldn’t be able to.
I think things will need to be specified about breeding simplifications. Since the hard and fast rule right now is the mutation has to be the exact one the parent has. So scaling down might not be possible if this is still the rule. Looking forward to a more in-depth guide on this.

 

[astralprogenitor]

Replacement terms suggestion to replace mutations (my vote still mystic to replace mutated): curiosities

So you'd have Mystic Breed and when dropping they'd have like Curiosities: Many Eyes

 

[Nym]

@One Little Jay ​

​

We def did lighten the rule about mutations, and one of the changes noted above is that mutations/edits can be mixed together, so that should address the concern about 4-parents making mutations harder! ​

 

[bitsie spider]

Don't have a lot to say, but am fan of curiosities